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Post by rr on Jan 28, 2014 10:33:26 GMT -5
It's difficult to find on the District calendar but just wanted to say that there will be a district sponsored Parent's Roadmap to help navigate the Common Core tonight, 1/28/14, at WHS auditorium at 7 pm.
Hopefully people come with an open mind and don't try to hijack a potentially informative session and turn it into a gripe-fest. There hasn't been much communication about it on any of the online forums like here or on FB but there is plenty about opting out and non-district sponsored rallies against the CC. I hope there is a good turnout tonight and that the session is designed to inform parents of how and what our teachers are teaching and seeing in the classroom.
I really do hope that there will be some teachers from K - 5 and administrators there to present how the CC is and will continue to benefit the kids in the long run. Obviously the implementation leaves something to be desired but I don't think we should throw away the whole thing because the implementation was sloppy. Change is hard and it's painful for most but in the long run I believe this will help education. It's always easier to accept the status quo and not make changes, not evolve or innovate, whether it be personal or professional but it usually is in the best interest to go through a short term pain for the greater good.
I liken it to a diet or trying to quit smoking, it's really hard and there's a lot of emotion involved and as tough as it is, if you get through that early hard time you will see that it gets easier and you will benefit in the long run. If you stop trying or delay your change you will rarely / never really get to it and continue the same old behavior.
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Post by Chris_Wendt on Jan 28, 2014 11:26:10 GMT -5
I hope they have planned to limit attendance/admission to parents of K-5 students in Wantagh. Perhaps it is just such a plan for a focus audience that has precluded more widespread announcements of the event?
Chris Wendt
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Post by rr on Jan 28, 2014 11:51:04 GMT -5
I could be very wrong but I don't think the turnout will be very large. I think most people that are interested in this topic already have made up their mind and probably feel like coming to an informative meeting from the school and listening to some of our kids actual teachers is probably just a waste of time. The relatively low communications about this meeting and the cold temps will probably also play into a potentially low turnout.
Should be interesting.
I attended what I hope will be a similar session in Seaford, it was promoted on the Patch and there was no limit or criteria to attend.
The issues with the implementation were discussed but for the teachers that presented were amazing and gave a very compelling 'argument' that the Common Core is already providing them with very visible benefits. These were seasoned teachers with lots of experience...
I only hope we can get a similar type seminar tonight...we'll see
7pm WHS auditorium.
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greda
Junior Member
Posts: 44
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Post by greda on Jan 28, 2014 18:32:08 GMT -5
My daughter received a notice about this week from the school a couple of weeks ago I believe.
There was also supposed to be one last week for the middle school grades but it was cancelled due to the weather. There has not be a rescheduled date so far as I know.
There seems to be more issues with the middle school than the younger grades as I believe they will be the ones who will take a little longer to adjust to the new work load as they were thrown right into the middle of it with little preparation. But I am confident that by the time they move onto to high school they will be well equiped to handle it
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Post by rr on Jan 28, 2014 21:44:52 GMT -5
I don't think there's any doubt about your comment about the Middle School kids having a more difficult time, it's a fair issue that people have and it's difficult. I also agree with you that the majority of the kids will adapt.
The meeting was good, a fair amount of complaining from some of the crowd but I think the admins did a great job presenting the materials and answering the questions and not getting derailed on obscure comments about a specific issue.
More talk of opting opt, which made me squirm and I don't really feel like rehashing.
All in all, I thought it was good, would have liked to see a few more teachers presenting but it was good.
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Post by Chris_Wendt on Jan 29, 2014 7:40:38 GMT -5
Sounds like progress. Any positive highlights to share?
Chris Wendt
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Post by rr on Jan 29, 2014 10:11:37 GMT -5
I felt that the presenting admins spoke positively about the change they're seeing in the students and the fact that the new math and ELA standards provide a deeper understanding of the concepts. They seemed to stress that the new standards are not dramatically different then what's been in place for many years already, there are some subtle shifts that were designed to help students and push students to become better, more comprehensive readers and more efficient with math facts and concepts. Additionally there was talk about how each year builds more on the prior year concepts learned and so on and so forth, again all good things that should benefit the children in the long run.
As I mentioned, a good amount of time was spent on the opt-out subject and how it could potentially impact the child and the district. They district is still trying to figure out what to do with the children that refuse the test, there was a clear point made that parents CANNOT opt-out for their children, the children must refuse the test on site. Aside from putting your child in a very awkward position there is also a real concern that if a certain % of the district's families decide to opt their children out of the test that funding could be pulled by the state. Aside from removing the students perceived authority of the teacher and refusing to do something that the teacher is assigning there is no direct impact to the student themselves for having the family opt them out of the testing, the district is working out a plan to limit the very obvious distraction this refusal process will be to those students who've worked hard and whose families decide that testing isn't anything to fear. Imagine a 7 year old child whose worked very hard learning material and taking practice tests and learning all this material and the person sitting next to them says 'I refuse to take this test' to the teacher - imagine the obvious confusion and distraction this act will cause in the child whose worked so hard...now imagine our tax bills increasing by amounts we've never seen because some families decide that they don't want their child exposed to a 'high stakes test' and the state decides to yank some funding...I don't understand whats to be gained by telling your child to refuse the test other than removing the authority of the school, distracting many other kids and potentially dealing a lethal blow to our school taxes. I understand wanting the best for your children and thinking selfishly about them but people should step back and think about the ripple effect of their actions on the rest of the community and children before they decide that opting-out is a reasonable response to education reform.
There were plenty of people there just to 'call for heads to roll' and with what seemed like personal axes to grind but in all I thought the material was well presented and made sense and the crowd was reasonable despite a few obvious snarky, rhetorical questions.
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Post by Chris_Wendt on Jan 29, 2014 14:02:55 GMT -5
The more positive aspects of your report are refreshing and encouraging. I did want to discuss the 800-pound gorilla, which you referenced with: "... time was spent on the opt-out subject and how it could potentially impact the child and the district." It looks like the District as well as the Commissioner and NYSED are making action plans to deal with the potential for more widespread opting-out this spring. "The district is still trying to figure out what to do with the children that refuse the test, there was a clear point made that parents CANNOT opt-out for their children, the children must refuse the test on site. Aside from putting your child in a very awkward position there is also a real concern that if a certain % of the district's families decide to opt their children out of the test that funding could be pulled by the state...." Rather naïve, yet technically correct, to state that parents cannot opt-out for their child; I mean, that will lead to unauthorized absences in lieu of classroom confrontations between little kids and their grown-up teachers. Also rather dangerous, given that one bold little girl or boy could take a stand and opt-out in front the her or his classmates, with the result being the entire class then decides, on their own volition, to opt themselves out, you know, in solidarity with their brave-hearted classmates. Point of information, the youngest children facing CC Assessments would be 8 years old by spring assessment time. You are correct in stating: "Aside from removing the students perceived authority of the teacher and refusing to do something that the teacher is assigning there is no direct impact to the student themselves for having the family opt them out of the testing...." This makes opting out a rather low-risk action for parents or kids to take. However, the other potential you pointed up needs to be considered: (paraphrasing) "...now imagine our tax bills increasing by amounts we've never seen because some families decide that they don't want their child exposed to a 'high stakes test' and the state decides to yank some funding...potentially dealing a lethal blow to our school taxes" That could be called "The Nuclear Option", precipitous for the retention or dismissal of The Chancellor and her henchman, the Commissioner. Relax, because across the state and around the country there are numerous school districts which did not make their required AYP in 2013 for participation rates in standardized testing (even without the Common Core being a factor) and no financial penalties were assessed that I know of. Let's not think of the Common Core being turned into a sledge hammer being swung in the direction of ordinary taxpayers. I mean, we both hope the Common Core gets a chance to work, and eventually to succeed in delivering its promises. I see this a little differently than your assessment: (paraphrasing, again) "There were plenty of people there just to 'call for heads to roll' and with what seemed like personal axes to grind (posing) a few obvious snarky, rhetorical questions." I think there is a common axe as opposed to personal axes, and I think this part is about APPR, which has ignited the ire of the senior faculty over the prospect of the potential end of Last-in/First-out, seniority-based layoffs in the future. This may underlie much of the foment about the Common Core Assessments, in a nefarious union attempt to derail APPR by killing the Common Core early-on in the APPR cycle. But this is not the whole story either. How can so many parents be moved to anarchy? The data store and intended sharing of personal student (performance) data has facilitated that. If the State does not get your child's (performance) data, then your child's data cannot be shared among corporate interests, nor can it be hacked or stolen or abused in the future. That is a compelling argument for opting-out. Sincerely, Chris Wendt
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Post by rr on Jan 29, 2014 14:39:08 GMT -5
Mrs. Goldberg did state that there were no penalties in 2013 and I agree it's highly unlikely that individual districts will be penalized but the possibility definitely exists. From my experience at the meeting last night there were several people with an individual issue they wanted to raise, in most cases Mrs. Goldberg responded that many of the issues people are having have been around for many years...yes, even before the Common Core there were unhappy parents.
In my head I keep coming back to the children in classrooms where kids are 'refusing' the test or simply not there for the big day and the questions going through their heads about why their friend is able to refuse the test, why is that an option? It bothers me that some people preach about how we need to raise standards and stop giving children a sense of entitlement and then turn around do something like this. We're giving very impressionable children the idea that if you don't want to do something because it's going to be hard you don't have to, and that is wrong, it's distracting and it's potentially a very expensive lesson with practically no end game that I can see. What is to be achieved by opting out?
This brings us back to what I consider a very poor decision by our BOE to pass a meaningless 'resolution' which really only serves to legitimize this notion that opting-out is acceptable because our BOE is against testing.
Also, as an aside, someone plastered flyers on every car in the parking lot about a non-district sponsored rally against the CC, chock full of opt-out rhetoric. I didn't want to litter at the school but that flyer promptly found it's way into the fireplace when I got home...
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Post by Chris_Wendt on Jan 29, 2014 15:39:07 GMT -5
Recognizing that APPR is anathema to the state's (nation's) biggest, most powerful union, and that which is most objectionable about APPR is tying Assessment scores to teacher evaluations, is anyone, then, in doubt over the persistence of militancy against the Common Core? They (NYSUT and its hundreds of local unions) cannot attack the Common Core Concept, and they cannot attack APPR directly, because APPR is the Law of the Land. But NYS through its bone-headed Chancellor and her sidekick the Commissioner of Education have given the anti-APPR faction a perfect target at which to aim their ire with at least some real possibility of de-railing the Common Core, and taking APPR down with it: Assessments, poorly to disastrously implemented, with their (thus far) lackluster-to-crappy results, to be shared outside of your child's school house and beyond your school district's ability to control or safeguard.
There is no option out of standardized testing. Opting-out is anarchy. Massive opting-out would constitute massive anarchy: civil disobedience on a grand scale, reminiscent of what some would consider the finest tradition of America in our brightest moments down through the ages.
Look away...look away...look away, Dixieland! Oddly, Lincoln had Dixie played at the formal announcement of Robert E. Lee's surrender. You know, on that night they tore old Dixie down.
Chris Wendt
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Post by lilly on Jan 30, 2014 9:29:50 GMT -5
Thanks for the recap rr. I read the leave behind powerpoint slides (def one of Wantagh's better/best quality powerpoints compared to previous Wantagh presentations I've seen). It made sense to me.
Data privacy is a larger issue we are all facing and will continue to at a greater magnitude with far reaching implications. It's not just an anti-CC sound byte although it is being used as one. It has to be navigated in general, this particular "CC issue" or not. And, it is actually misleading for anyone to assign it as a CC issue.
Going forward, "they" (district or state level) will need to collect, synthesize and analyze the (test) data in order to move forward with programming changes. It's the way of the world now and there is no turning back.
A few years ago, it wasn't that hard to protect privacy. Pre-internet explosion, it was pretty much an unlisted telephone number. In recent years, it was not using your real name on social media. Not so anymore... There are companies, big industry now, that collect what used to be private data, and using it for financial gain. Most insidious example is mylife and lifelock which are owned by the same company. mylife takes data from public records and assembles a life story published on the internet. Google yourself and check it out. mylife will report previous addresses, marriage, etc., whatever is on public record. Then they have a product, lifelock, which they sell to "protect" that same private data from being on the internet (with a heckuva a lot of consumer complaints about them).
Separately, potential employers have an excellent snapshot of people they've never been privy to before, before people even come in for an in person interview e.g., pictures, credit history, political/religious beliefs, lifecycle demographics, GPA's, leisure activities (including the proverbial drunken lampshade episodes), arrest records, etc. Using a different screename? Well if you post selfies or any other pictures (and even heads of state are doing selfies, lol), there is internet visual tracking software that will uncover your identity based on pictures alone. Financial info? For finances, there's Target, Michael's, Neiman Marcus security breaches. Credit/debit card companies can't keep up with the fraud compliments of lightening speed tech changes. Not even mentioning the obvious like Snowden, Facebook privacy issues, Anonymous hackers, etc.
Heck I know Wantagh El 4th graders on instagram and tumblr whose parents think they aren't on the internet. These are kids of parents who have gone to great lengths and are extremely tech savvy themselves to safeguard and prevent their kids' digital identities. Yet the kids are doing it and have one. Wantagh El 5th graders had "couples" info I think on instagram - who liked who as couples. Fear that little Johnny had an IEP, was suspended for fighting in 2nd grade, or got a low score on a premature CC state test, may be made public, well seems like a drop in the bucket if that info is ever breached.
NY is at a catch 22. They HAVE to collect the test data, no question about it. Will look like idiots and set us back if they don't. OTOH, by law kids' privacy has to be protected/safeguarded. But it is entirely naive to think it's not going to happen (are the privacy concerns a CC red herring?). Pass the popcorn, it will be mildly interesting to watch as it plays out.
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Post by lilly on Jan 30, 2014 9:30:23 GMT -5
PS HATE the new format of this board. I guess I need to get used to it.
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Post by rr on Jan 30, 2014 10:23:18 GMT -5
Lilly - if you don't like it you should opt-out I agree with your concerns about data privacy, but like you said, that's not even really a Common Core issue, that's an issue we all need to be concerned with. People who post on FB, Instagram, Patch, Twitter, ProBoards, send an email, text on your phone, Snapchat, Tumblr, use a credit card (at Target), bank online, or even talk on your cell phone need to realize that we are leaving a footprint, one that is almost always able to be traced back to an individual. People living in fear that their kids personal information will be leaked because of the Common Core really need to think long and hard about what information their kids are putting online right now anyway...there's probably more self inflicted damage happening now than some imaginary boogie man will do. As far as I know, PII is an incredible hot button issue in the data mining world and there are industry standards and laws about encryption, token IDs and aggregation/suppression rules that make it incredibly difficult to isolate an individual in a set of data. Data Mining and Analysis is a very viable way to effectively and efficiently create products for teachers, parents and students. It's a way to statistically remove bias and understand real trends that can be used to make better BUSINESS decisions...as I've said before, if our schools were run in a more business-like manner perhaps there would be less wasteful spending and increased productivity. I'm certainly not talking about removing creativity from the classroom or the learning process - in fact I think this promotes the need for our teachers to innovate and energize the students. IN doing so, the test scores will rise, evaluations will rise, classrooms will be more lively and everyone benefits and those that cannot find ways to motivate and engage the kids will be weeded out. Data mining will help us understand these trends, it will also help some of the big, bad corporate entities to develop tools for teachers and parents for kids with different needs. Data Privacy is a HUGE issue that anyone using virtually any technology needs to be concerned with and tying it to Common Core, in my opinion is more frivolous rhetoric.
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Post by Chris_Wendt on Jan 30, 2014 11:20:13 GMT -5
There was a lot of "frivolous rhetoric" out in Riverhead last night. See Article on Patch (link). Please don't shoot the messenger, here. You can see the agenda underneath the rhetoric. Now, if you think the Common Core Concept may be valid, and, if you believe in the efficacy of the Common Core Curriculum, and you therefore would like to see the Common Core have a fair chance to succeed, then you need to do some soul-searching or critical thinking, whichever you are more comfortable with. To me, the best way to save the Common Core Concept and the Common Core Curriculum would be to de-couple APPR from the Common Core Assessments. That would be the best, meaning fastest and easiest thing to do, to improve the dialectic around the Common Core Concept and Curriculum. The second best thing, almost as good as the first, but not really, would be to localize the data processing of Common Core Assessments, providing each school/district with the software to strip (not encrypt, but to strip) personal identifiers from any data sent or stored off-site, meaning out of district, e.g. in a BOCES data warehouse, or on an SED (or SED-contracted) database, and/or a database of the federal government or any of its contractors. Oh, and replace the Chancellor of the Regents and her lackey, the ersatz Commissioner of Education. I think it is of value to be alert and aware of the overall discourse about the Common Core. I was thinking, perhaps rr should do a blog on Patch about the Wantagh CC meeting, which sounds like it was a far cry from the Riverhead shindig. Regards, Chris Wendt ps - the new format, here, takes a little patience and experimentation to get used to, but I find it easier and more stable than the old. -CW
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Post by rr on Jan 30, 2014 12:54:31 GMT -5
That article is ridiculous and in my opinion really furthers the rhetoric and really diminishes some real issues that kids face. To blame the Common Core on some of the things that children and teenagers have been dealing with forever is borderline dangerous.
As much as I post on this topic you'd think I'd jump at the thought to do a blog but there are a few reasons I would choose not to do that. One reason is that I am a pretty horrible writer, as I'm sure you've seen I have very little structure to my arguments and tend to rant and jump around. Secondly, I respect the people that write on this forum because they are open-minded and I find most of the posts here to be fair and well thought out. I have no real desire to put a blog together on this topic and become Wantagh's very own John King...someone to point the gun at and be told that "you have no experience in teaching, you've never been in a classroom, you have no idea what you're talking about". Not my idea of useful time management...I'm not a reporter and I would not be able to veil my contempt for people who choose to opt their children out of a test. I'll post on the Patch, and continue to dialogue with you, lilly and greda about this as we're the only ones left posting on here but no desire to be the lighting rod, better things to do with my evenings...like help my children prepare for school and make sure that they know tests are their to help you. Like most things in life, a test is what you make of it, if you make tests some big scary thing that your child should fear and run away from or refuse to take - well that's what will probably happen and they will understand that if I can't get 100% on something I might as well not even try. If you make them understand that tests are made to challenge you and measure progress and see how you're progressing against a given task, well then...that's probably how your kid will look at tests, and maybe they can understand that in life, you don't always get 100% but you should always do your best and continue to challenge yourself in every aspect of life. Maybe I'm being too idealistic though...
Regarding the APPR, I'm sorry but I just do not agree with your opinion on that. It's a major part of the reform, we're not just raising the bar for students - we're raising the bar for the teachers and we must be able to see progress and reward teachers that are performing and take action against those that are not.
Till next time. rr
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