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Post by Chris_Wendt on Oct 21, 2013 6:40:41 GMT -5
Here is an article (link) on-point concerning how badly NY Education Commissioner King has botched implementation of the Common Core Assessments. After himself speaking for an hour and a half, he abruptly cut off public comments from parents and teachers and then canceled three additional town hall meetings on Common Core. There is a 25-minute video attached (link). Read the article, watch the video; you be the judge. There is a town hall meeting at Levittown Town Hall this evening at 7:00 PM, but I do not believe this is sponsored by NYSED or that the Commissioner will attend. I think tonight's meeting may be sponsored by Long Island Opt Out and an organization called BATS*. It is getting pretty WILD out there! I want King replaced as soon as possible, if for no other reason than he has lost the confidence and respect of both teachers and parents across the state. THAT IS BAD FOR EDUCATION. Chris Wendt *BATS - Badass Teachers Association (link), claiming 30,000 members, looking for King to resign. |
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Post by rr on Oct 21, 2013 9:05:39 GMT -5
As usual, interesting stuff...I'm curious though..and I'd love to hear from Chris and others on these questions:
Is it the Common Core that everyone hates or just the way it impacts teacher assessments? I guess the 2 are related but it seems like people tend to lean one way or the other. Many people seem to feel that the Common Core is a conspiracy that the "evil" corporations are perpetrating on an unknowing public. I've read people saying that it's all about the politics and back room deals, and data mining and they don't like that.
I've also seen people say that the material is inappropriate, too hard, too mature, too much homework, too much everything....
Then I also hear from people saying that the way it was implemented is unfair to the teachers and that the 20% of their annual assessment will be negatively impacted by the scoring on the tests.
I can see all these points and I'm sure they all have some validity to those voicing their concerns. My question(s) are:
If Pearson is replaced who takes their place? and who's to say they don't want to make money for their own agenda? I'm not sure but isn't making profit the goal most corporations? Curious, who should decide what company takes over in their place, could it be a politician??? If you don't think data mining and market research are good, please explain why? Not only do those things create jobs but they are usually in the business of making things better for people. All personally identifiable data are coded and not tied to anyone specific and the data is used to create niche markets, promotional materials and programs that are designed to help the public...oh, and the companies also make money and create jobs in the process...and last time I checked, that's legal...yup, I'm pretty sure that creating jobs and making money is legal. Curious how many of the moral police out there own an iPhone or Apple stock? Take look at the working conditions where the iPhone you use to post Opt Out info is made and then come back and tell me how evil corporations are out to get us all...It's hypocritical, and par for the course today when it comes to selective prosecution of the evil corporations. We all like what we like until it impacts us directly and then it's time to pick up arms and attack.
Regarding the standards and curriculum, if the current standards are too high, too mature or too whatever, ok...please explain who decides what is appropriate and who sets the new standards? And why is this new person more qualified then those who setup the Common Core standards?
The evaluations are potentially the only thing I think I agree was done poorly. It appears to have been rushed but I think the appropriate actions were taken and steps have been made to rectify the mistakes of the rushed implementation. And afterall, the majority, the vast majority of a teachers evaluation is based on principal evaluations, not the test results.
It seems like there are alot of people complaining about things but I still haven't heard a viable solution. Chris, even your solution of having King resign seems like punishment for the error but doesn't seem to address the issues. Perhaps having him step down will prevent future errors but still, what is the replacement supposed to do over and above what's been done at this point?
Nothing is perfect, including this Common Core and the way it was implemented but are we rushing in trying to destroy this thing before we've even had a chance to see the affect it has on the kids who are now learning it? Shouldn't we at least wait and see how the kids how started school learning this way have progressed? To me, having your kids opt out of the testing is really just ends up hurting the whole process. If the goal is to destroy, then maybe it's a good option, but exactly how does that benefit the kids?
I don't know, I hear alot of complaints but no solutions. It would be like rushing into a war and not having a valid exit strategy or end game, and I think we all know how that plays out...
I may attend this meeting if I have time just to hear if ANYONE says something remotely solution-based and not a reactionary rant about how we need to get our kids out of "high stakes" testing. Who made these tests "high stakes" anyway?
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Post by Chris_Wendt on Oct 21, 2013 13:39:39 GMT -5
I need you to take a step back from the fray that is shaping-up and consider the following points carefully - The Common Core Curriculum could be wonderful or it could be disastrous, or anything in-between.
- The Common Core concept lends itself to fear and trepidation, and to being exploited by religious, political, socio-economic, and special interests. Such exploitation could take the form of rabid support for or of rabid opposition to the concept.
- Common Core Assessments rather than the Common Core Curriculum have been badly mishandled by the NY Commissioner of Education; it is extremely important to try very hard to NOT confuse Common Core Curriculum with Common Core Assessments; they are two different things. One, the curriculum, is the subject matter and learning standards to be taught under the Common Core concept. The other, the assessments, are the method of testing and evaluating (also two different things) the results and effectiveness of teachers having taught the curriculum to students. Those results and effectiveness metrics include individual student performance, school performance, school district performance, and individual teacher and principal performance, as well as impinging upon remedial and supportive services for which students (and their parents) may qualify. Likewise, on a macro scale, the commonality of the curriculum should allow for a meaningful assessment of the effectiveness of the curriculum itself to inform future instruction (and/or future testing methodology or rubrics).
- Forty four states have signed-on to the Common Core Curriculum. Texas, Virginia, and Minnesota are the largest of the holdouts. Those 44 states have each subscribed to (joined) one of two state-run consortia for implementing the Common Core, and especially for developing, releasing, and managing the Common Core Assessments.
- New York belongs to the 19-state Partnership for the Assessment of Readiness for College and Career (PARCC) consortium.
- California and Connecticut belong to the 25-state Smarter Balanced Assessment Consortium (SBAC).
- The important constant among BOTH PARCC & SBAC are their identical implementation schedules which call for development and testing of assessments through the end of this school year, and full implementation in 2014-15 school year, meaning issuing the first full scale real Common Core Assessments in the Spring of 2015.
- There are major differences in the tracking of each consortium to its own time line. SBAC is probably one full year ahead of PARCC, and on the SBAC website (link) parents, teachers and school administrators can already see sample questions, practice tests and teaching aids. Compare this to what you find on the PARCC website(link).
There is supposed to be sample testing (Field Test) of PARCC assessments later this school year. How will NY be able to participate in this critical developmental milestone for PARCC's Common Core Assessments? Instead of screaming at Commissioner King, someone ought to calmly and politely ask him that question. That question, and, this one: When the PARCC Assessments are ready for prime time in 2015, will NY switch over to the PARCC Assessments? Commissioner King's ridiculous, bull-headed implementation of his own, untried version of Common Core Assessments two years ahead of the rest of the country, and with no planning or preparation, has exposed the Common Core concept, the Common Core Curriculum itself, to the possibility of being widely, soundly, and prematurely rejected by stakeholders in New York. Bad results from bad tests will do nothing to improve the college and career readiness of New York's 2.7 million students, and those bad tests may very well spell the end of Common Core in NY, and with that, the end of any potential benefits that may have derived from its implementation, had the implementation of the Assessments taken place in the Spring of 2015, as scheduled. I hope some folks will spend some time on the SBAC and PARCC websites. Chris Wendt |
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Post by rr on Oct 21, 2013 15:12:40 GMT -5
I don't mean to sound dismissive but doesn't the assessment issue belong to the teachers and their union? I understand the implications between the testing, the teachers and potentially eventually the kids but I feel like good teachers are good teachers and they can and will adapt, at least that's what I hope...and their fight for is their own.
The teachers union is a pretty strong force in NY (there's a bit of sarcasm in that statement!)...doesn't this fight belong behind closed doors? Isn't our tax dollars enough support of the teachers and unions in this fight? Isn't that the ENTIRE point of having union representation?!?!?
This meeting tonight that you mentioned in your post has a guest speaker who formed the LI Opt-Out Facebook Group (a completely non-biased and fact based group according to many), how does opting out even relate to PARCC and assessments? It's hard top have a constructive, educational meeting about the topic without the very vocal opposition talking over every answer and stating opinion, not asking real questions...
I think the opponents to the Common Core, PARCC and all the related issues need to get together and present one unified message based in fact. Too many people are jumping on this bandwagon of anti Common Core and I don't think many even know what they are fighting against or for...they seem to just think that being a "good parent" means that they should be against the "Common Core".
The facts are being lost during the Town Halls that King cancelled because too many people are focused on derailing this train before it even leaves the station...leave the assessments fight to the union.
Are we fighting for the teachers assessments or for the kids? All this time I thought we were talking about teaching the kids and preparing them for life, not defending 20% of a teachers annual evaluation...silly me. Should King he forced to resign...maybe, but who's to say his replacement doesn't do the same thing or worse...
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Post by rr on Oct 21, 2013 15:38:44 GMT -5
by the way, that 25 minute video was exactly the type of nonsense that I'm talking about. Drowning out the response, booing, cheering...nothing is actually learned at these forums. People come iwth their opinions and drown out any opposition. How is the Board Of Regents supposed to gauge the implementation with the only people showing up complaining. The only discourse being stiffiled at these meetings are thoise that aren't for the destruction of Common Core and everyone associated with it...typical and more hypocrisy.
It's nothing more than an angry mob mentality...I'd like to see a real discussion and not a prep rally.
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Post by rr on Oct 21, 2013 15:47:47 GMT -5
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Post by rr on Oct 22, 2013 10:11:46 GMT -5
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Post by Chris_Wendt on Oct 23, 2013 6:33:44 GMT -5
When King shut-down the public comments and canceled his remaining scheduled meetings about Common Core, some stakeholders held their own meeting without King. Here (link) is the report from the Levittown Town Hall meeting. Newsday also carried an article ripping the state-rigged APPR results (link). I have a comment attached to that article as well. The Regents and NYSED (King) are getting the message. How could they not get it? Here (link)is what they are planning. King will go around the state attending meetings where the audience. not King, speaks. Right? Commissioner King has lost credibility with many educators and parents. Chancellor Merryl Tisch still supports him, but several Regents are losing confidence along with some key legislators, the latter calling for King to resign. Happy reading. Chris Wendt |
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greda
Junior Member
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Post by greda on Oct 23, 2013 12:43:24 GMT -5
he may have botched the implementation of the Common Core, but it needed to be done. And RR you are right - the lack of civility is really disgusting. However I dont really care about the teachers unions and their evaluations as it is all much ado about nothing as is evidenced by the evaluations And the real issue as always is - are our children prepared? That should be what these people should be screaming about beacause the at the end of the day the government (which has screwed up everything from Indians to Obamacare) and the unions only care about themselves. www.nytimes.com/2013/10/23/opinion/the-united-states-falling-behind.html?ref=opinion |
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Post by rr on Oct 23, 2013 13:58:30 GMT -5
I'm about to vent...forgive me for the ranting nature of the following....
I think we're on the same page greda but there are many that think it's more important that the teacher's evaluation process not get hurt or that the kids come home with high test grades and smiling from ear to ear.
I get the need for kids to enjoy school, and to feel good but I don't understand the knee jerk reaction by so many...change takes time, nothing is perfect but it's without a doubt a step in the right direction as far as I see. I feel like a lot of the reaction is political in nature too.
I stand by my opinion that Opting-Out is not an option and I really hope we don't start hearing that sentiment from our administration. So many people are promoting rumor and opinion as fact online, people are citing Facebook pages and Republican blogs as fact regarding data collection and all sorts of topics surrounding this. People don't like the reading material, it's inappropriate...who should decide that and what if I find the new material too racy, too easy, too difficult?
I care more about getting the best out of my tax dollars for my kids...if the unions didn't like the evaluation process why did they sign the agreement?!
We can write and talk until we're blue in the face but there's no stopping the amount of rhetoric and rumors online about this subject, people hear a catch-phrase and it becomes the rallying-cry for many, with no evidence to support it. It's pretty hard to have a voice on this topic when you are constantly drowned out by yelling crowds and people throwing rumors up.
Whatever...I'm reaching the point of exhaustion on the topic and I'm tired of having to debunk rumors and rhetoric...I simply think it's too early to call this thing a disaster, opting out is irresponsible, and people might be better served to stop following the online crowd and chanting / yelling the same rumors and start looking at what they're fighting for or against.
I feel like for the past decade or so we've seen a steady decline in educational quality and I don't think that's up for debate although I'm sure someone will say, "well look we had a senior go to Yale 3 years ago so what about that?!" Amazing how asking a little more out of teachers, students and parents has created such a line in the sand. I pay WAY TOO much in school taxes to NOT expect the absolute best teachers, facilities and education for my kids and I refuse to accept that the old standards were better.
We should ALWAYS be improving school for kids, evolving, using technology...with a budget the size that we have we must demand the best.
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Post by Chris_Wendt on Oct 23, 2013 20:17:03 GMT -5
Do you have data supporting the following statement? "I feel like for the past decade or so we've seen a steady decline in educational quality...." I would also request that you define "we" and "educational quality"...Wantagh? ...New York State? ...the United States? You can look at some official data on the NYSED School Report Card website (link). Over the past 3 years, NY State saw improvements in all 17 assessment metrics except 8th Grade ELA which fluctuated between 51% and 50% (2009-2012). Wantagh had decreases in 5th Grade Math (87% to 82%), 8th Grade Math (91% to 86%), and the 4-year Cohort Graduation Rate (99% to 97%), while ten (10) other metrics improved and four (4) metrics held steady in the period 2010-2012. I find it notable and perhaps even laughable that NYSED has removed significant amounts of historical district and statewide assessment performance data from its School Report Card web page, recently. I guess they do not want a lot of looking back longingly at the good old days once the 2013 Report Card Data is published. Shaking my head.... With best regards, Chris Wendt |
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Post by rr on Oct 24, 2013 7:42:38 GMT -5
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Post by Chris_Wendt on Oct 24, 2013 13:39:38 GMT -5
I think there is a decent level of discourse going on here. We seem to have varied levels of agreement and lack of agreement, which is healthy. rr posited: "There are plenty of articles out there about the decline of education and isn't that the reason behind the reform? I'm talking in general, not Wantagh..." Reforms are initiated by reformers for their own reasons, not always apparent to supporters of their proposed reforms. But reforms do need and always have a stated objective (the thing(s) to be fixed) and usually have catch phrases, buzzwords, and talking points to attract and retain disciples and adherents. Disciples of reform movements are those who are "in" on the underlying but not always publicly known reasons for the reform; adherents are those who accept and embrace the stated (public) objectives, and who identify themselves with the catch phrases, the litany of buzzwords, and then chant the mantra of talking points for the movement. Education, especially public education, has been in a constant state of reform for 200 years, and will probably always be under reform. Perfectly understandable in my estimation, so that there is no argument from me about the need for reform, reform being an inherent ingredient of responsive and current education. But given public education's ongoing need for reform, the existential continuum of reform of public schools does not mean the Common Core is either necessary or desirable. Critical thinking is desperately needed, here, but critical thinking is largely absent from the "debate" or riot or skirmish, depending upon your point of view. Getting down to facts, you can believe that education is in decline even though it isn't. There are plenty of articles that say public education is declining. Then there are the data which say otherwise. In my perspective, the 4-5 year steady improvement in public school graduation rates is very much attributable to NCLB; not necessarily the curricular aspects of it as much as the commonality of reporting data back to each state from hundreds of local school boards for every public school in their state, then all that data being rolled-up and reported to the central government for evaluation and comparison. This renaissance started when there were 52 separate state-level curricula, but one new reporting structure initiated through NCLB and reinforced by AIS. There is a gigantic red flag in the raison d'etre for the Common Core, which I will skip for now. The second red flag, right in your face and right now, is the dilution and adulteration of Common Core Assessments, the fragmentation of assessments into some 13 flavors of emerging assessment plans: - the PARCC assessment consortium
- the SBAC assessment consortium
- NY (as a non-compliant outlier from PARCC)
- plus 5 individual, non-aligned Common Core states
- plus 5 individual non-common-core-adopting states
How do we make believe that we are developing a Common Core...while there are 13 different methods of assessing the results...just over the horizon? I read all the articles rr provided. More, later (tomorrow?) in reaction to them. I hope we are all reading intently, along both "sides" of this not very common issue. Regards, Chris Wendt |
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Post by rr on Oct 24, 2013 14:01:56 GMT -5
Chris, I literally Googled 'US Education in decline' and chose a few articles that I skimmed over...more in an effort to illustrate that there is a sentiment / feeling that educational standards are on the decline and have been for some time. I've looked at both sides of this issue and I keep coming out on the side that I feel gives me and my kids the most for my tax dollars. I'm in favor of knowing how my kids teachers are evaluated. I can certainly see your point on the assessments and potential issues on the horizon but to keep to the point of this thread, too many people are just reacting based on what they hear from Glenn Beck or what they read on Facebook pages, and the reality is that there is likely an agenda behind the resentment to the Common Core Standards. Certainly Glenn Beck is trying to comply with his base of tea party and conservatives that hate national anything...unions are afraid of declining dues revenue, teachers are afraid of job security...my agenda is my kids education and my tax dollars. I want the best for my $, in all things. I want to know that our district is doing the job as good or better than other districts, other districts that assess teacher and student success similarly and have the same type of budget needs. I want to know how our schools are performing and if they are falling behind other districts being graded similarly I want to know why and I want more accountability. I want to attract and retain great teachers who can motivate and engage our kids and I want them rewarded based on merit, not tenure or length of service. That's my agenda...I'm not concerned with placating my political base, I'm also not concerned about union dues or job security for poor performing teachers. And just as an aside, for anyone reading this and feels that teachers were not involved in the creation of the standards I ask you to respond to this short video...particularly around the 1:00 mark... www.youtube.com/watch?v=MA8MGHnrcPw |
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Post by Chris_Wendt on Oct 24, 2013 16:08:15 GMT -5
Excellent reply rr. I promise to keep your motives in the forefront of my mind during this discourse. My motivation is ultimately the education of my 9 grandchildren and what will hopefully be a larger number of great grandchildren long after I am gone. What do I want from my education dollars? Value. I am willing to spend to get (value), but I am no longer willing to spend to perpetuate non-productive "programs" including compensation programs of various kinds in our schools. This here is a nice aside in the serious, ongoing, and protracted conversation. You and I would do better in that conversation to work at understanding one another and to then better align ourselves together rather than in opposition. The best way to do that is to stay engaged in the discourse. Chris Wendt For anyone who wants to confer off the page, you can email me at chriswendt117@gmail.com |
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