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Post by ourkids on Jun 10, 2008 17:16:18 GMT -5
hightax- your long list is just plain confusing to me. Sally was talking about Nassau County. You give us a state list with districts that may be totally unlike Wantagh. You must give people accurate information that they can compare. Sally gives a formula about administrative costs per pupil. this makes sense and they are numbers I can understand, AT this date we need clear information rather than information that is confusing .
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Post by ourkids on Jun 10, 2008 17:27:24 GMT -5
I just received information from Mr. Christie regarding fundraising for the cultural arts program that was cut from the budget. He said it is a possibility but all the money must be collected in full and given to the district prior. BOCES will only deal with the district. Once there is a committment from the district, they will hold it responsible for payment. He is not sure what their final date of acceptance is or how late a child can enroll. He said fundraising may be a challenge. Wouldn't it be something if we could pull the community together to organize a fundraising campaign to benefit the cultural arts program and athletics together? Please share your thoughts.
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Post by hightax on Jun 10, 2008 17:33:12 GMT -5
ourkids - I gave all the information from the state so if someone wants the know what any District is paying they can find it. As you can see Wantagh is really not that low statewide 77 out of 670. Tell me what does Administrative Cost Per Pupil mean and what does it do. It does not tell me if the number of Administrator and type of Administrator are optimal.
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Post by jdelisa on Jun 10, 2008 18:47:57 GMT -5
hi ourkids - the Sports Boosters Club hopes to meet again with the Board about our own fundraising just after next week's vote. historically, we have already done this type of fundraising with the district but it's definitely historical, going back to austerity or almost austerity budgets in the late '70s. we're sure alot of the rules have changed since then. we're hoping that there will also be some coming together of all our community groups to help mitigate some of the planned budget cuts across cultural arts/sports/etc. around that time also. one heads up to the leaders or presidents of different groups: forgetting about austerity budgeting (unless it happens), you might want to ask your group members what they feel your group's role should be in any replacement fundraising or what the scope should be. we've heard discussions ranging from a total replacement of every dollar needed to put every kid activity back in all the way to some wondering whether we should even think about trying to replace the programs at all for next year. it's pure "Odd Couple": don't assume. catch our re-vote ads in last week's and next week's Citizen.
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Post by dotherightthing1 on Jun 10, 2008 21:57:00 GMT -5
To All, The salary info that one of the previous posters obtained is PUBLIC INFORMATION which is easily obtained at any one of the district buildings as well as administration.It is also found on any copy of the budget which can be read at the PUBLIC LIBRARY or you can also obtain one at the administration building,located at the middle school. FACT:Wantagh's Administrative costs are the second LOWEST in Nassau County. Numbers without years of service,educational degrees serve only one faction without any basis of comparison with other district that have similar numbers of students,state aid info,turn over rates and many other poignant factors. And,kudos to taxed2death,well said! Get the info from directly from knowledgeable sources is always the best way to go. Call Mr.Christie,as many of us who have had any opportunity to have had meetings with him, will not disagree,he is very knowledgeable and always willing to discuss matters of such importance.Anything posted on this blog should be confirmed by his office.
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Post by dotherightthing1 on Jun 10, 2008 22:02:09 GMT -5
The above quote is a good example of confusing information- Is Wantagh the second lowest in Nassau or the second lowest per pupil in Nassau? I know it was somewhat clarified in later posts, but this is what leads people to be mis-informed. The list of administrative costs by districts in the state is not confusing, but is an example of factual info. that others want to spin. $2,554,800 is a lot to spend on administration. If we want to have an excellent academic program, along with sports, arts, music, clubs and all the other activities we currently have, the BOE must provide leadership and reduce administrative costs.
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Post by sally on Jun 11, 2008 5:42:51 GMT -5
Thank You for you OPINION,dotherightthing1 I think that the ENTIRE NY state school numbers,that hightax posted for admin, was very confusing.We know nothing about those school districts and to use them in any comparison is mis-leading.There is no info for any of those school districts,just numbers.Down state and up state are two different areas that can not be compared.It was just putting up a bunch of numbers,my opinion and I read another post that agreed as well.Thanks. I Never mind making clarifications to better help people understand, like you said I did in a later post,I hope everybody does the same.It is the right thing to do....
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Post by ourkids on Jun 11, 2008 6:50:32 GMT -5
That long state list did nothing to help me understand the finances in our district. When you offer information to compare something about one district to another, the districts should be similar in size, number of schools, etc. Also, can any changes take place in the 2008-2009 budget regarding salaries? I think we are discussing an issue that is in a contract and can't be changed at this point in time. When the contracts come up for discussion again it would be wise to discuss options like holding the line. Remember the teachers have already given back in some health care benefits. Let's keep looking forward in a positive way.
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Post by sally on Jun 11, 2008 7:09:52 GMT -5
That long state list did nothing to help me understand the finances in our district. When you offer information to compare something about one district to another, the districts should be similar in size, number of schools, etc. Also, can any changes take place in the 2008-2009 budget regarding salaries? I think we are discussing an issue that is in a contract and can't be changed at this point in time. When the contracts come up for discussion again it would be wise to discuss options like holding the line. Remember the teachers have already given back in some health care benefits. Let's keep looking forward in a positive way. OURKIDS,I totally agree with you.
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Post by forthekids on Jun 11, 2008 7:17:35 GMT -5
I agree with ourkids and was just about to post the same thing. Comparisons are great and we should have the correct information about where we stand in spending, but to compare us to upstate school districts and even to some downstate school districts, that are smaller then ours, have few buildings and in some cases are not k-12, doesn't do anything to clear up the confusion. Also, as stated by ourkids these are salaries that at this time are contractually bound, we can't do anything about them right now. In the future, sure it's something to look at, as well as the benefits that go with it, but you are not going to lower their salaries at this point. One more point to ourkids, were you able to find out the total amount per student for the cultural arts program. I know there are some conflicting amounts out there. But it would be helpful to have a clear amount if any fund raising is to be done.
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Post by lilly on Jun 11, 2008 9:31:50 GMT -5
I thought hightax's #'s were interesting but wanted perspective. hightax, do you have the link for them on the state ed website so I can tell whether it's 07/08 or another year's? So I divided them by the projected 08/09 enrollment figures published in Newsday on 4/30/08.
District/Admin Cost per Student/Admin Costs/08-09Enrollment
East Meadow/$484/$3,654,301/7,544 Levittown/$562/$4,364,655/7,754 Bellmore Merrick*/$563/$7,188,284/12,766 Seaford/$638/$1,691,338/2,653 Wantagh/$683/$2,554,800/3,738 Farmingdale/$716/$4,448,993/6,208 Massapequa/$978/$8,051,464/8,230
*Total of: Bellmore Merrick Central HS/$454/$2,782,538/6,130 Merrick UFSD/$510/$961,368/1,885 North Merrick UFSD/$746/$1,003,041/1,344 Bellmore UFSD/$737/$876,532/1,188 North Bellmore UFSD/$705/$1,564,805/2,219
We're at the high end. If you take into account the size difference between Seaford and Wantagh, Seaford is 7% more efficient than Wantagh. If Wantagh were spending at Seaford's rate in this area, that would be $179k "savings" - probably one admin salary which funds more than the painful cuts to the kids.
It would be nice, in fact should be required that Wantagh provide the types of analyses discussed on this message board to the taxpayers during the budget process along with proposed budget info. Then we'd be spending time confirming and discussing the merits of the district's analyses i.e., we'd be on the same page. Mr. Christie cannot physically field a gazillion taxpayer phone calls, nor should he have to.
At this point teacher contracts cannot be changed. Administrative contracts are up for renewal this month or July. Is the board looking to save us any money or will they continue cutting from the kids? And while you can't change the teacher contract rates, you can change the way the contracts are used. For example, why do we need one principal and two asst. principals in the High School? Can't we get away with one principal and one asst. principal? Can't the job responsibilities and tasks of the the second vice principal position be 'doled out' amongst the many department chairs that we have for the secondary level, especially since they are not teaching many periods? If the Board of Ed is involved in negotiating those contracts on behalf of the community, what are they doing in that regard? Or not to pick on the high school, but how can Beech St., a much larger school than Mandalay or Forest Lake get away with one principal and one asst. principal and those schools can't?
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Post by sally on Jun 11, 2008 9:57:44 GMT -5
Lily,I would like to see the link also.Not that I have a problem with your theory,but we need to see things firsthand.It would be beneficial if the link was broken out by per pupil.The info I gave was from the boces link for 06/07.
Also,I am confused regarding your statement with the principal ane vice principal at wantagh el vs. forest lake and mandalay.Wantagh el has many more students than our sister schools,so wantagh el doesn't need a vice principal?Wantagh el houses most of our special ed programs in the district and quite often more hands on is necessary.
I do like your ideas and we should address this.As I recall when Dr.Robb-Fund,former vice principal pf Wantagh El,who has since moved onto the Commack District for an asst. super of some sorts,who is now making way more money,she wore two hats.She was also in charge of the reading program in our district.So it has been done in the past and probably is already being done in some capacities,but a closer look can be beneficial.
I would like to let you know that : Ron Lobel serves as dean and chairperson of music. Kathy Kahill serves as Chairperson of Science and Technology Pat Colasso serves as chairperson of Foreign Language and Business Pat Beary serves as chairperson of Family and Consumer Science and Art.
Also note,Administrative contracts are reviewed annually Dr.Bonuso's contract is in place until 2009. Thank You and have a nice day.
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Post by lilly on Jun 11, 2008 10:14:00 GMT -5
sally, my point was Beech is a large school with one principal and one asst. principal. I am sure there are many many more responsibilities for those functions beyond parent contact, but I found Dr. Sternberg and Dr. R-F very accessible, responsive and hands on with their teachers given the size of the school. Mandalay and Forest Lake are much smaller than Beech. I know they each have a principal. Do they have asst. principals too? If so, that feels like overkill given their small size. Couldn't some of those responsibilities be shared and how are they spending their days? (And if so, that should afford enough staff time for those admins to make home visits to each and every parent - just trying to put some humor, albeit a bit sarcastic, into the situation.
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Post by sally on Jun 11, 2008 10:23:55 GMT -5
Hi Lily,There are no asst. principals in Forest Lake and Mandalay..There is a teacher in charge when the principal in those buildings is either unavaliable or out of the building.
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Post by lilly on Jun 11, 2008 10:28:32 GMT -5
Ok, that shoots down that possibility but comforting to know it's already in place for those schools. I still have questions about the high school though.
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