Princeton System

[cathy]

I was wondering if someone could explain the benefit of this system over the current system.

To me, it seems like each elementary school would have fewer walkers, so that increases transportation and (I'm assuming) insurance costs to tax payers.

Thanks!

[WantaghConcernedCitizens]

Simple, lets say you have a total of 8 sections for 5th grade (district wide), the class size per elementary school can be drastically different. For example, you could have 2 sections in Mandalay with 17 (total 34) kids per class, 2 sections in forest lake with 19 (total 38) kids per class, and 4 sections in Wantagh Ele with 24 (total 96) kids per class.

Note: I choose these numbers because they were small enough but still unable to reduce the ultimate amount of sections per elementary school, assuming our class size policy of 30 students per class.

If you centrally locate the 5th grade in any of the elementary schools, you could create 6 section with 28 (total 168) kids per class. Which will help to reduce staffing costs.

[cathy]

I see. I wasn't thinking about the numbers combined, I was having a senior moment and assumed it would be the same number of classes, just all in the same building.

Thank you.

[lilly]

Another benefit is that by having all the grades in the same building, increased opp'y for communication & collaboration among the teachers.

Also, it would be easier to get programs like RtI started (probably with resources savings too as opposed to certain needed functions in each of the schools).

Lastly, a more uniform educational exposure. A certain MS teacher used to say 'you can always tell which school a kid comes from by the way they write'. I don't know if or to what degree that is going on now, but my interest would be each kid deserves the same experience no matter where they live (not sure I'm using the right words here). If my kids had been in the school that presumably feeds in the weaker writers, I'd be a bit ticked. So, having them together by grade could be a benefit. They are together by grade 6-12th anyway.

A Kindergartener is very different than a 5th grader. I would imagine there is something to be said for a school building run solely for a specific age group.

Bellmore went to this system years ago. The 3 elem schools are now Kindergarten, Primary and Intermediate "Centers".

Not selling it here but sounds like something worthy of further consideration.

[wecandothis]

If we go to the Princeton plan, would it be implemented for the 11/12 school year or the following year? Where would each grade level be?

[lilly]

wecandothis, the whole concept is tbd. I wish they would do an an analysis of it for 2011/12 but I haven't heard that that is being done. So, no worries/rumors about changes yet.

If the kids are not negatively affected, we can become more efficient and solve some of our very real, very big financial problems, I'd be willing to listen and receptive to a big change like this.

[Chris_Wendt]

The Princeton Plan or Modified Princeton Plan is among several potential cost-saving, potentially educationally beneficial prospects that should be under active consideration by the Board of Education.

Numbers (dollars) and a pain quotient have to be applied to any of these options, along with at least a little discussion with the public by the Board.

Other considerations should include:

• "Interstitial Zones", areas (e.g. between the Parkway and Wantagh Avenue, or the old Sunrise Park neighborhood) where there is not one automatic elementary school assignment in effect
• Re-districting, changing some or many or all of the current attendance zones to balance out class sizes and transportation costs on a more permanent basis
• Voluntary school re-assignments to relieve higher class sizes and level-up low class sizes, as was previously done very successfully between WES and Mandalay, only now it would probably be between WES and Forest Lake
• Arbitrary assignments of new entrants to the district to any school as required to balance class sizes (as was the way it used to be at the height of the Baby Boom in the 1950's and 1960's
• A blend or combination of the foregoing, again, as dictated by class size variations and the potential for cost reductions or educational benefits, for instance and such as to accommodate the implementation of Full-Day Kindergarten, or several sections of Full-Day Kindergarten.

It is too early to target only one option or to disregard any option or combination of options.

But it is TOO LATE to engage in those old-fashioned year-long or multi-year accomplish-nothing-but-protect-the-status-quo "study groups" (like GLAC); the Board of Education should delineate what options they will consider, convene one study group for each option, and give them three weeks to provide costs, benefits, and issues for each option. All stakeholders, including parents and general taxpayers, should be considered eligible and invited to participate in the study groups.

I hope this addressed your questions and concerns.

Chris Wendt

[cathy]

Thanks everyone, that was helpful.

I did know that Bellmore moved to that system a while back. 2 kids in my daughter's pre-k class had older siblings in that district and 1 family liked it a lot. The other felt like it wasn't a great fit for their child, they seemed to feel like the years he switched schools it was difficult for him to settle in to school after the summer break.

Personally, I'd prefer to see us move to a Princeton system than close one of the schools and sell the property off to a developer. Lately it seems like they try to shoe-horn 2 houses into a space where there used to be just one, so I could just see a sudden influx of young families, a population boom in the schools and then we'd need another bond to expand the existing schools. But I'm a pessimist and probably over-thinking the situation.

Thank you again to everyone, this was interesting to learn about.

[Chris_Wendt]

Cathy,

Please be careful not to make too great a leap from (potentially) "closing a school" to "selling the property to a developer". Seaford closed a school years ago and rented it to BOCES for quite a few years afterward. BOCES canceled the contract recently and the building is sitting empty now, as Seaford considers what to do with the building, first, the land and building second.

All of our schools in Wantagh are zoned for school purposes. Any future development for other than for use as a school would require re-zoning by the Town of Hempstead, and that could only be done if a fully developed and compatible development plan were submitted for consideration.

Presuming that a school had to be closed someday for economic or non-utilization issues, then closing and "mothballing" a school would be a far more likely outcome than closing and selling a school to a developer. Closing a school and then leasing it to a Charter or private school would be another more likely alternative to selling it to a developer.

Regards

Chris Wendt

[cathy]

That's a fair point about the Seaford building. I was assuming the board would make the same decision they did when Sunrise Park was closed, if the board ever does decide to close one of the schools. I was just trying to say if it did ultimately come down to one of those 2 options, which my personal preference is, unfortunately it seems I did a poor job of.

[lilly]

FWIW, initially the idea felt strange to me about the Bellmore schools (I went to them as a kid). Then I saw my nieces and nephews go through them under the Princeton plan. Everything was fine, big conceptual change and all.

Also, in Bellmore one of the elem schools used to rent space to Little Village, now Little Village is in its own building. And the North Bellmore elem schools closed down Martin Ave school for years renting it out to a preschool? and maybe some BOCES type offices. Guess what, when the elem population grew a few recent years ago, they got rid of the tenants and opened it up for North Bellmore elem kids again.