lk90
New Member
Posts: 6
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Post by lk90 on May 3, 2008 15:30:15 GMT -5
lilly, could the reason Massapequa spends $142.17 and Wantagh spends $206.81 per student be that Wantagh pays their coaches more money? Maybe we need to look into where our money is being spent. I know it isn't spent on equipment and uniforms because I had to pay for those for my kids. Massapequa also has nicer fields then ours, so our money is being spent there either.
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Post by lilly on May 3, 2008 16:25:05 GMT -5
lilly, could the reason Massapequa spends $142.17 and Wantagh spends $206.81 per student be that Wantagh pays their coaches more money? Maybe we need to look into where our money is being spent. I know it isn't spent on equipment and uniforms because I had to pay for those for my kids. Massapequa also has nicer fields then ours, so our money is being spent there either. Great question and I have no clue as to the answer. I saw a 2004 chart on teacher salary that put Wantagh smack in the middle of Nassau County. Coaches would probably fall into it bc they are teachers I think. Another chart I saw in Newsday - can't remember the year - put Wantagh teacher pay at something like the bottom 25% or 33%. So, I don't know. What do you mean you had to pay for uniforms? I know the middle school uniforms were horrible - rags until last year they started replacing them at the principal's insistence. That plan to constantly refresh both middle school and high school uniforms went the wayside this year when they needed equipment for the new field. So much for the attempt at planning... In Seaford, the kids can either get a uniform from the school or have the option to buy their own. Many choose to buy their own. I didn't think we offered that in Wantagh. There was also talk of a fee per child to keep the sports teams but that was nixed because it is not allowed? Parents also suggested that they could help coach to decrease costs but that was nixed for the same reason - something with regulations not allowing it.
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Post by lulubell on May 3, 2008 17:40:48 GMT -5
lily, I agree with you that academics are a bigger problem. However, I think we need to look at the education system as a whole, not in segmented pieces. Just as we need to look at children as a whole person not just as academic students. I think we all understand that expenses need to be reduced, and I think everyone would agree that academics are more important but that doesn't mean that sports and all extra curricular activities are not important. Perhaps I got a little off task but my point was instead of cutting middle school sports we should cut administrative costs by instituting salary freezes etc.
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Post by sportsgirl on May 4, 2008 15:21:18 GMT -5
I went through the Wantagh Schools as a child. So did my husband. We bought our house here, so our children could attend good schools. We pay more money than other school districts, so our children can have more. When I think about it, I'm not really sure why we're paying more. What do we really have that's better? Education is very important. But sports are also important. It gives children a feeling of belonging, a place to play, something to look forward to after a hard day of studies, a chance to make friends outside of math class, and the list goes on and on. Being part of a team is a very important lesson in life for various reasons. Taking this away from our children is very wrong. It really saddens me. Trying out for teams is very stressful to begin with - and then to make it twice as hard for these kids is shameful. Where is all my money going?
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Post by concernedparent on May 4, 2008 18:28:49 GMT -5
I agree with everyone who says that sports are an important part of a child's education and it does help them to be involved in their school. But what about the kids that don't play sports and maybe could use more academic programs. How come our so called "Schools of Excellence" don't have an Intel Science Program, or a Robotics Club or other programs that target children that might not have an interest or talent is sports. Looking at other districts I see all the science, math and music competitions that they enter and don't see nearly the amount of activity from this district. On the elementary side, other districts offer all kinds of clubs and activities for their children to make them more well rounded. Something that is not a priority in this district.
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Post by idea2004 on May 4, 2008 20:16:53 GMT -5
SPORTS ART AND MUSIC are great . They round out the whole child give them other areas to enrich their lives . But do we have karate classes, no if a child wants to take a sport that is not offered or does not make a team the parents pay privately, do we offer dance classes for our young girls, no if a girl or boy wants to take tap or jazz or other the parents pay privately . What's my point if your child wants to play sports in school than let the parents of the child pay for it ! The BAC said we need to take a hard look at the services we give to our most neediest students IT IS LAW TO PROVIDE FOR THESE STUDENTS .DOES THE COMMUNITY KNOW THAT THE WANTAGH DISTRICT IS IN FEDERAL COURT WITH A FAMILY OF OUR GREAT COMMUNITY NOT TO HAVE TO PAY FOR SERVICES THAT THE CHILD NEEDED ,WHERE DOES THE MONEY GO! LET'S SPEND THE MONEY IN COURT WITH LAWYERS INSTEAD OF TEACHING A CHILD TO READ HOW MANY PARENTS OF SPECIAL ED STUDENTS DON'T GET WHAT THEY FEEL THEIR KIDS NEED IF YOU EVER BEEN IN A CSE MEETING YOU WOULD THINK THIS SCHOOL DISTRICT SUCKS BUT MAYBE THE PARENTS OF SPECIAL NEEDS CHILDREN ASK FOR TOO MUCH YES IT'S TOO MUCH TO ASK TO HAVE YOUR CHILD READ DO MATH WRITE A LETTER SO YOU PARENTS pregnant dog ABOUT SPORTS THATS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE REASON THE KIDS GO TO SCHOOL TO GET AN EDUCATION YOU SHOULD FOR ONE DAY SEE WHAT IT'S LIKE TO WATCH YOUR CHILD STRUGGLE TO SOUND OUT A WORD ,NOT TO BE ABLE TO READ A BIRTHDAY CARD NOT TO BE ABLE TO WRITE A CARD TO ONE'S PARENT WITHOUT MISSPELLING A WORD LET US AS ACOMMUNITY TAKE A HARD LOOK AT THE SERVICES WE GIVE THESE NEEDED KIDS BECAUSE INSTEAD OF BEING IN A CLASS WITH THERE PEERS THE PARENTS AND THE KIDS THEMSELVES WANT TO BE PULLED OUT OF CLASS ,THEY WANT TO HAVE SPEECH O/T RESOURCE ROOM. GET THE PRIORITYS STRAIGHT SCHOOL IS THERE FOR LEARNING NOT SPORTS
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Post by lilly on May 5, 2008 5:51:44 GMT -5
lily, I agree with you that academics are a bigger problem. However, I think we need to look at the education system as a whole, not in segmented pieces. Just as we need to look at children as a whole person not just as academic students. I think we all understand that expenses need to be reduced, and I think everyone would agree that academics are more important but that doesn't mean that sports and all extra curricular activities are not important. Perhaps I got a little off task but my point was instead of cutting middle school sports we should cut administrative costs by instituting salary freezes etc. lulu, we agree. Sorry if I came off like I didn't. Some of the comments on this thread worry me - makes it sound like we are a community that places so much emphasis on sports to the detriment of academics? Someone else pointed out on this thread, that there are other ways to have a well-rounded child. And those areas are effected as well or maybe not even thought of.
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Post by lilly on May 5, 2008 5:58:23 GMT -5
Sorry to hear about your observations idea2004. Maybe we do some IDEA classifications well and others not so well. I totally disagree with the district spending money on legal fees to deny a child services - that sounds like a lose lose all around for the particular child and the rest of the kids.
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Post by twinlaker on May 6, 2008 0:26:21 GMT -5
lilly - please make accurate comparisons: you grabbed your $1,170,062 from page 22 of the Massapequa 2008-2009 proposed school budget (referenced below). only problem is that our Interscholastic Athletics line items includes a $24K lifeguard/trainer expense PLUS big, bad transportation representing over $140,000 of the $773,047 bone (page six of Wantagh budget doc) that was tossed to our sports program. apple to Massapequa apples, adjusted to their view, our budget is more like $609K. Using your twisted logic of dividing by the entire school district, the actual difference is their economy of scale $142 to our small district $163; twisted logic because, and here I have to go anecdotal rather than fact-based, even though we are a smaller school than Massapequa, we all acknowledge that we have an higher percentage of students involved in our sports program, especially compared to a Massapequa with a Burns Park, a multiple Little Leagues and town-based football, soccer and lacrosse leagues along with PAL. maybe Seaford would have been a better comparison, since they still have all their 7th and 8th grade teams competing next year….. And, yes don't include exterior HS bleachers and track surfaces that were allowed to deteriorate over many years to where they became unsafe. but as far as the new, un-needed gym and un-needed plastic turf go: we let the Board of Ed pander to certain (un-invoiced) non-school groups the second time around and we'll be paying for these shiny items and the shiny bronze plaque with their names on it, for a long while just because a one or two year bubble of students is going to pass through the district. remember all those additional elementary school classrooms we had to have, for this same small Class of 2010 & 2011 bubble and how empty or underutilized these additions all are now? so lilly, if you want to be pissed about these $5 million bond items, I’m with you (you know that the Board is going to stick unfunded bond items to complete the gym complex, like lockers, in next year’s annual budget didn’t you?) what’s my beef? removing line items or programs that benefited our kids while administrative or infrastructure costs that the do-all, be-all bond was suppose to cover are left alone or are increased. we need to collectively keep looking out for all our kids equally and at least keep a status quo going, rather than balance this poorly written budget on the back of our kids. so let’s see, your underfunded academics, my underfunded sports and arts programs, operation of plant (besides the bond items) increasing 20%, administrative computing increasing 23%, public information & service cut by 17% ….you see a troubling trend? ****************************** Massapequa doc is at www.msd.k12.ny.us/files/635/Master%20PDF%2EpdfWantagh doc is at wantaghschools.org/Board_of_Ed/0809Wantaghbudget.pdf
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Post by lilly on May 6, 2008 9:05:33 GMT -5
Fine twinlakes - apples to apples is fine. As I stated above, I didn't know why the sports budget was out of whack and the transportation line item explains it. It was not my intention to mislead but to have a fact-based discussion. Last time I checked though, swimming was a sport. It is good to know that our efficiency rate on sports spending is comparable to other districts' general population.
As far as Wantagh being very sports-minded, that's fine. As you stated, there are other options beyond the school teams.
I'm not going to get into "twisted logic" of the sports cost per student because we need to look at these budgets with some sort of quantification checks and balances. Nor am I going to get into a defending sports argument because no one can disagree with well-rounded kids or the value of sports including me. The questions are how much, at what expense and versus priorities bc it doesn't seem like we can have it all, does it?
Personally, I feel a bit duped about the bond and state of our budget. And while I heard a rumor about the lockers, do you know how much that will cost out of next year's budget? Can't wait for that - more tough decisions and possible divisiveness.
When the bond went from $20m to $16m, did the community understand what was omitted and how that aligns with priorities? I don't. Does the community understand how & why we need to go to bonds and when we can expect another bond proposition? I don't.
Right now, we'll have that shiny new gym and turf field but a few obsolete computers for everyday student use. Within the budget while I like the idea of offering an IB program which has been quietly added in but how much was that and is it at the expense cultural arts, agendas, cutting other high school electives and some middle school sports? Where is our planning - other districts started introducing their RtI plans in community forums in the past two years but I'm unclear if we even have an RtI plan and where it would be in the budget. (Note, I'm not mentioning these things to inflame but to demonstrate a point.) And we can all debate these line item priorities until the cows come home with unfortunately, no clear easy solutions.
And yes, I see the troubling trend.
At minimum, I'd love to see Wantagh's budget pdf that was mailed last week to include FTE's, subtotals and percent & dollar changes with the lengthier analysis like Massapequa's posted on the website.
As a community we need to be more informed and pull together.
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Post by sally on May 6, 2008 13:03:44 GMT -5
:)I am responding to Lilly..You should become involved in the Budget Advisory Committee,where at least 20 of your fellow community members go line by line through the budget. Also a full budget is available for your perusal at the district office..I am sure you will get to see all the pertinent info you are looking for..This years budget was a real challenge,fiscally and responsibly..I have been a member of the BAC for 10 years now..It truly has shown me that this task of setting a public school budget is very difficult. I also want you to know that I have a child entering the 7th grade.Though the decision of combing the 7th grade,boys and girls sports is not my favorite,I assure you it was something that neither the board or the BAC took lightly, as well as the other cuts from this budget .I see the demands this budget put on the BAC as well as the board of education..All the decisions that were made were debated and gone over several times with lengthy sometimes heated discussions. Although we all walk out of that meeting room together not always agreeing on every issue...I urge you to get involved next school year and put in many hours like so many of us for the benefit of our school and the children of this great community we all call 'HOME"...By getting involved in the process you too can have a say from the start...Please be Pro-Active not Re-Active...Thank You
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Post by sally on May 6, 2008 13:08:14 GMT -5
And by the way,I support this budget..Thank You
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Post by twinlaker on May 6, 2008 13:44:21 GMT -5
lilly -
not for this thread, because it concerns itself with parental anger over a give-back none of the middle schoolers ever negotiated away (or benefited in return), but I think we agree that rather than only having a Budget Advisory Committee, we need an Academics and an Operations Advisory Committee, to precede the work of the BAC:
- no technology policy except to pour additional 1990's methodology and tax $$$ into black pit (district can't even get voice mail to work)
- we're increasing the number of (sometimes accepted) college courses for our seniors (as they seem to be getting into less and less selective schools) instead of offering AP exams that the colleges are looking for
- increased building spending, even with the HVAC, electrical, boiler, roof, etc items included (we hope) in the bond
- no review of (mostly 6-12) routes and ridership of buses since who knows when
- increasing revenue or at least covering costs on our upgraded indoor and outdoor upgrades
...just as a start. I'm sure we know of a few pricey issues that are ignored year after year.
while sally should be commended for encouraging participation in the BAC, she should also remember that those sessions were mostly the district explaining what they had already decided to do, and, this year especially, coming in each week with incomplete, inaccurate or late replies to the point that the BAC didn't get revenues figures or some of these unbalanced cuts until the very last day they were asked to vote (11-10-1 by the way) on the proposed budget. in reality, the whole budget cycle each year seems to be on a set calendar that cuts off any information going out to the community until it's already locked up, thirty days before voting day.
And by the way, I can't support this budget because it doesn't support our kids. so lilly - do be pro-active; get involved next school year and put in many hours like so many of us for the benefit of our school and the children of this great community we all call 'HOME" and help straighten out the processes that have gotten this district in the position it now hold as a place that increases its school budget while cutting opportunities and activities for its student ..... Thank you.
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Post by sally on May 6, 2008 14:31:19 GMT -5
I do think twinlaker that the district cannot put forth its numbers out earlier until they have some idea what the state aid will be for that year..I do think the state holds us up alot...Thanks for using my comments,I liked them as well...Thanks :)I love a democracy in action...
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Post by lilly on May 6, 2008 15:46:26 GMT -5
Yes, I can agree twinlakes. I wholeheartedly agree with you on most. And we need to change the processes. I've been wondering why other districts have long range financial planning committees and we're not even close to thinking that way yet these issues and challenges have been around a while. I liked your suggestions about the work that needs to be done to precede the BAC. Your observations regarding what went on at the BAC this year were very accurate and a divided vote anyway. Maybe the mission and the purpose of the BAC need to be re-examined if other processes aren't put in place. You had me almost 1000% until the erroneous assumption that I should get more involved by being on the BAC though. I'm not sure about my vote. I've been 'abstain' to no to yes. I'd feel a lot better about voting yes despite the painful cuts at the the kids' expense *if* I sensed we were moving forward in terms of addressing bigger issues. Also what bothers me is (using some of your words) having a say in some of the "choices" that was really the district explaining what they had already decided to do on the very last day. Vote no, taxes still go up and even more (all?) is taken away from our kids. Voting on a particular principle seems more and more irrelevant the closer we are to 5/20. I respect however you and Sally vote. And I don't buy the whole 'get involved' and 'vote yes' "or else" for the very reason that we are all in this together for all our kids. We have a whole community of interested people who for the most part have common goals that are perfectly capable of understanding the issues - for whatever reason they may not be able to devote time to the BAC. There is no reason for voters to have to stop by the district office to pick up a copy of the final budget in detail and try to figure out the issues themselves. Nor do I believe healthy discussions like this are anti-Wantagh School District or anti- any of our kids. Thank you too.
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