Newsday on consolidation and magnets 1/29-30/09

[lilly]

I wasn't sure if this went under academics or budget but seemed more appropriate here since it's a budget implication for all LI schools.

Newsday has been publishing a few articles these last few days on consolidation and, the concepts of transferring kids between district and magnet schools on LI to better address student needs. I bolded the comments I found interesting. Very interesting is that the overwhelming majority of LIers favor school transfers and the concept of magnet schools. To me that reads as people think the typical formulaic LI schools are becoming outdated? And that we may not be preparing our kids/country's future in the best possible manner. LI has roughly 1, yes one "magnet" type school which Wantagh regrettably pulled this year's seniors back from attending.
_________________________________

www.newsday.com/services/newspaper/printedition/saturday/longisland/ny-liinde316018491jan31,0,589359.story

Study calls for consolidation of LI school districts

BY JOIE TYRRELL | [e-mail]
January 31, 2009

Saying the time is right to change the education system on Long Island, a former member of President Barack Obama's transition team who also heads an education foundation said Friday that local leadership should consider district consolidation and also address inequalities in the public schools.

John Jackson, president of the Cambridge, Mass.-based Schott Foundation, spoke to leaders Friday at Hofstra University at the unveiling of the Rauch Foundation's sixth-annual Long Island Index, a yearlong study that examined the structure of the region's schools and found a mismatch between school resources and student needs.

"My question is: How is it that on Long Island we can have a population that is performing at a high level and just because of geographical location we have a population that has not achieved the type of performance they are very much capable of achieving?" Jackson said.

The study found that high-needs students in relatively wealthy districts outperformed high-needs students in poor districts.

"Access to more resources and interaction with a more diverse student body promote better achievement," said Ann Golob, director of the index.

Nancy Rauch Douzinas, president of the Garden City-based Rauch Foundation, said that Long Island's future depends on rebuilding its economic engine and education is a critical component of that. However, she said Friday that Long Island is "trending downward" with the economy in decline and pay decreasing.

She said Long Island needs to have "more of an attitude ... that this problem is unacceptable and it is time to fix it."

The poll did find that Long Islanders seem to be accepting of limited transfers of students from failing school districts to more successful ones. And, two-thirds of Island residents favor the creation of regional magnet schools for talented students.

Jackson said the report has provided Long Island with the information it needs and now it is the time to act on it.

"There are great opportunities here on Long Island. The issue is what Long Island is going to be five to 10 years from now. Leaders or laggers? That is a question only you can answer," Jackson said. "If the only reason is we are holding on to tradition because of tradition, we will soon find out we are behind the times."

Nassau County Executive Tom Suozzi, who also spoke at Hofstra Friday, said he planned to create a task force out of the index composed of leaders from the community including those from business and education.

"It is time for us to make dramatic change on the things we have been talking about for years" Suozzi said, adding that there will be a need for changes in state law.
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www.newsday.com/news/local/education/ny-liarts306016764jan30,0,7811567.story

Syosset arts school LI's only magnet-type academy

JOHN HILDEBRAND
January 30, 2009

Long Island has yet to establish a regional magnet school open to all qualified students, as envisioned by the Rauch Foundation's latest Long Island Index report.

Still, the Long Island High School for the Arts in Syosset comes close. Equipped with skylit studios and a 400-seat theater, the Nassau BOCES school provides about 200 teens with professional training in the performing arts.

Randy James, an associate professor in the dance department at Rutgers University, recalls the first time he saw School of the Arts students put on a performance. That was a decade ago, and James' department has recruited the school's dance majors ever since.

Currently, 32 school districts in Nassau and 11 in Suffolk send students to the arts school for either half- or full-day sessions. But other districts refuse to do so, usually because they don't want to pay BOCES tuition rates. Disappointed students have no right of appeal.

Students may also find themselves barred from the school due to a change in circumstances. Last year, for example, the Wantagh district stopped sending teens to Syosset, after residents voted down a proposed budget.

Under state law, students are not automatically entitled to the sort of training provided by the arts school. But students are entitled to BOCES training in fields considered occupational, such as carpentry or cosmetology.

This strikes many educators as odd in a regional economy so dependent on filmmaking, television production and Broadway theater. Ava Favara, principal of the arts school since its founding 35 years ago, says, "This is a profession, it's a career and it should be part of a child's right."
____________________________________

[Chris_Wendt]

"Students may also find themselves barred from the school due to a change in circumstances. Last year, for example, the Wantagh district stopped sending teens to Syosset, after residents voted down a proposed budget.

Under state law, students are not automatically entitled to the sort of training provided by the arts school. But students are entitled to BOCES training in fields considered occupational, such as carpentry or cosmetology.

This strikes many educators as odd in a regional economy so dependent on filmmaking, television production and Broadway theater. Ava Favara, principal of the arts school since its founding 35 years ago, says, 'This is a profession, it's a career and it should be part of a child's right.'"

It is always difficult to argue against the law when the law says opposite of what may seem logical.

However, I believe that the Syosset program, like interscholastic sport, falls within the discretion of the Board of Education to determine as being necessary contingent expenses. In other words, certainly for sports, the school board could have declared sports necessary contingent expenses and funded ALL of them (without ANY fundraising), instead making equivalent dollar value cuts in administrative costs. I'm pretty sure the Syosset-based BOCES Art program could have been funded by the BoE, requring only an offsetting cut in administrative costs.

(Actually, the more I think about this, the more curious I am about that decision of the Board of Education to fund "some" sports, but requiring "fundraising" to fund other sports. I mean, did the Board decide that Varsity Football WAS a necessary contingent expense, but that Spring Track was NOT? To my thinking, if any varsity sport falls under the category of being a necessary contingent expense, then ALL varsity sports should. All, or, None. I think the board was playing budget Dodgeball with sports in order to save administrative "Sacred Cows" from being cut. So we kept NY State's only School District Photographer, as but one example, and then killed ourselves raising money for "The Kids".)

Chris Wendt

[ourkids]

I think our BOE chose to fund fall sports instead of spring sports to give the SOS more time to raise funds necessary for winter and spring sports. I'm not sure where your comment "Sacred Cows" is coming from regarding this issue.

[Chris_Wendt]

"I think our BOE chose to fund fall sports instead of spring sports to give the SOS more time to raise funds necessary for winter and spring sports."

Arguably, the BoE did choose to put the funding of sports on the backs of fundraisers and their contributors, rather than taking this responsibility upon themselves. However, and respectfully, I have the benefit of history and experience with which I may enlighten your thinking on this.

In the past, Sports was a mandatory cut when a school budget was defeated. Not some sports or other sports, but all sports were cut, automatically. The State changed the rules in more recent times, allowing a BoE the option of determining that interscholastic sports could be considered a necessary contingent expense, allowing sports to be funded through the contingent budget. In my opinion, this change in the regulations made sports funding not only possible, but also made it an "all-or-nothing" proposition. In other words, if a BoE determined that "interscholastic sports" was a necessary contingent expense, then ALL sports were in the SAME category; if the BoE decided they could fund "sports" then they should fund "sports"...not, 'well, let's fund Fall Football out of the contingent budget, but let's leave Spring Track up to fundraising to take care of.' I believe that was a totally incorrect approach, legally.

When the BoE made the decision that it was "legal" to fund "sports", they should have funded sports, and then looked elsewhere in the contingent budget to make cuts to comply with the spending cap.

"I'm not sure where your comment "Sacred Cows" is coming from regarding this issue."

The "Sacred Cows" come in now. Having decided to fund sports, and then actually funding sports, the BoE would next have had to cut some of their (the BoE's) "Sacred Cows". To name some which could have been cut to have made fund raising completely unnecessary...

• ELIMINATE the District Photographer position
  
• ELIMINATE the position of Assistant Superintendent for Instruction
  
• ELIMINATE either the Director of Guidance position or one of the Assistant High School Principal positions
  
• REQUIRE Department Chairs to teach 4 periods each day
  
• REDUCE the number of Librarian positions
  
• REDUCE the number of clerical positions
  
• Temporarily REDUCE the number of District Psychologists & Social Workers
  

Thinking about this list, the BoE COULD HAVE ADOPTED THESE CONCEPTS, plus allocated several hundred thousand dollars of excess Workers Compensation Reserve Funds to use as revenue and actually PASSED A BUDGET last June!

Think about that for a just a moment.

I think about that a lot.

Who are you, by the way?

Thanks,

Chris Wendt

[jdelisa]

Chris -

I'll let you and your anonymous "ourkids" continue to butt heads, but on a separate sports "fairness" thread (which should be broken off from this consolidation one), it was good to hear from our Athletic Director at last night's Sports Booster Club meeting:

He plans to include in his '09-'10 budget both a request for an athletic trainer, that was dropped as part of the contingency budget, but, more importantly, funding for all of the 7th and 8th grade teams that last year's BoE knowingly planned and chose to combined this year, even before the two rejected votes.

It didn't seem fair this year to the many hundreds of kids left out or to the half of the coaches that chose to teach the most remedial but fundamentals of those sports but were left out or the other half of coaches with a "merged" team this year that, again out of fairness, had to wind up choosing an all-star only roster among the remaining kids.

The return of the security and safety of a daily trainer and the full complement of Warrior teams should start to pull everyone together this next budget-go-round. I can only say start because I hope the big planned hurt put on in the arts this year (even though our Wind Ensemble is still playing at Carnegie Hall next week!) is lessened next year.

all the best,
/JDe

________________________________
fyi - yes, the real practice, practice, practice Carnegie Hall, Tuesday, February 10th @ 8pm. www.CarnegieHall.org for details/tix

[kimb]

Hi

I am new to this board I have been reading it for many months. However this is the first time Ifelt the need to reply. My children attend the middle school and the high school. My question is Who forced coaches to pick all star teams? We are talking about middle school kids and if you have had kids go through the middle school and participate in the sports then you would know that it is taking a step back wards from other youth sports. The middle school has always gone back to teaching the fundamentals of the game and yes My older son played combined football years ago. Mr P made sure everyone played and made the best of it. It was a very big team. This year when the board of ED combined the 7and 8 grade teams, parents were furious seventh grade parents said at meetings they would not vote for the budget and they didn't. Well this year it may happen again because hundreds of kids did not get to play even though most of their parents donated hundreds of dollars to the SOS hoping every child would get their chance .But what happened is the combined teams became an inclusive eighth grade team with three or four seventh graders getting their chance. Were the eighth graders that much better well we wont know. Girls volleyball four seventh graders and 13 eighth graders Same for boys basketball etc etc. lacrosse will be starting in the spring Thanks to the sos!!! this year it was decided by (not the board of ED) to have it be a try out Is this Fair to the seventh graders who know they wont make the team because their are so many good eighth graders. Who decided this was the way to go because when it comes time for budget vote in May their will be so many angry parents Rightfully so. So I am asking What did the board of Ed do to create this situation. Middle school sports do not need to be all star teams that is ridiculous.I think it must have been hard for the coaches to turn down kids but at the same time Someone should have had a procedure set Maybe the athletic director? Combined teams should be that Seventh and Eighth grade teams and do the best with what you have This is Middle School!!!!!

[anthony]

Hi,

Just to clear one thing up.....the girls volleyball team had 9 seventh graders and 13 eighth graders. Not 4 seventh graders as reported in the previous post.

[Chris_Wendt]

This is a question of P-R-I-O-R-I-T-I-E-S.

I size it up this way. When times are difficult, the BoE has an obligation to provide services to the students who attend our schools. That is why you send your children to school, and, MOST IMPORTANTLY, that is why the rest of us who no longer or who do not yet have children in school pay taxes: to provide services to the children.

So, what falls out of the equation, or what should fall out of the equation is this: cut administrative costs all the way to the bone...before you touch ANY student programs,

After administrative cuts, you need to look next at other things: at things like library staffing; at things like professional overhead ("ASSISTANT" This and "ASSISTANT" That positions...); at Nassau County's One-and-Only School District Photographer position;at things like unused cash reserves;
...and, at things like C-O-N-S-O-L-I-D-A-T-I-O-N of services and positions with neighboring districts.

Before there were ANY people handing out even a single FLYER last year, there was a first budget vote, where THREE things happened:

• Some people took things for granted and stayed home, instead of coming out to vote
  
• Some people got ticked-off about 7th & 8th Grade sports, and came out to VOTE NO!
  
• THE BUDGET WAS DEFEATED..

No "Concerned Citizens" handing out flyers, No "Concerned Citizens" placing ads in the Citizen, just complacent parents and ticked-off parents! That sums-up the First Budget Vote & Defeat.

After that, long after all that, the other citizens grew very, very "concerned", but mostly over...the BoE's reaction and their do-over vote of the already once-defeated budget.

Chris Wendt

[lilly]

So, tell me again how a topic on academic offerings and future direction of LI schools derailed into a sports budget discussion? ;D I think I missed something here...

[Chris_Wendt]

...the discussion just devolved, or...meandered.

I don't know if the ADMIN can or would consider taking the reponses about sports off this thread and moving them to "SPORTS"?

(On an 'non-precedent-setting' basis, of course!)

Chris

[Wantagh Parent]

We're fine with threads veering off somewhat from time to time.

We interpret it as discussions sparking interest and that is what this message board is supposed to be, a respectful forum for people to connect on district issues and developments.

lilly, there is a pm here for you.

Welcome kimb and anthony. Thank you for posting.

[lilly]

For the record, I'm not offended. I honestly thought it was an interesting comment on our town and jdelisa did caveat that he thought it should be in another thread. I always look forward to what jdelisa has to say here. I put a wink and smiling smiley to hopefully indicate that.

I just want to be real careful here that we're all not drinking a bit of the kool-aid that got us into trouble last spring, you either "believe" or you are "accused" of not believing as if healthy discussion points are a horrendous disloyal thing and plus we never discuss untidy matters in public forums - that is left for the cold cut line in King Kullen or on the sidelines at games and surfaced at the spring budget polls. Heck, according to the Wantagh Seaford Citizen, surrounding districts are having difficult public discussions about budgets now and yet that same paper reports everything is going exceedingly well in Wantagh when the reality is we're having a tough year - we're prevailing but face it, it's a tough year.

As per the announcement on another thread, while it is good that Dr. Begely knows Wantagh, we've heard accolades about her when we haven't heard an action plan that will position Wantagh for the future. We have uneven NCLB score performance by elementary school and what was as of last year, an increasing # of special ed due process cases - something is not right and/or the district has continuing work to do. The district has decent/good++ performance overall but we have things that need to be addressed and we need to be positioned for the future.

I can't help but think it's no longer business as usual and LI schools will change in the next decade or so - it's a matter of survival. Change in views is what this article was about - that 2/3's of those polled favored hard looks at re-organization and magnet schools for math, science, the arts yet Wantagh ran in the opposite direction of that this year and the discussion on this thread veered to sports. Does the poll in this article apply to all districts except Wantagh?

While I love hearing what the AD and Sports Booster club will propose (and saw firsthand problems with combined 7th & 8th this year) and in general any news from them, we haven't even seen a budget yet and don't know how this will be funded and at which kids' expense (hopefully it is by taking a really hard look at admin and other area costs, not kid programs). If you include the bond repayment, much of which is sports, we already have an excessive financial commitment to sports due to that. You have to give lots of credit to the sports booster club for their contribution to making sports such a priority here though. More power to them, it's entirely admirable. But I think the athletic trainer was dropped like the LIHSA Cultural Arts kids were at the 11th hour right before the first budget vote anyway.

So, Debbie Downer this morning and bring on the tomatoes but as a community we have a lot of work to do and the district/BOE has a lot to prove in their budget plan before we can say it looks great for us all galvanizing around something which is TBD. There is greater involvement on the BAC this year so that is promising and instead of the BOE looking to the BAC to just bless a budget, maybe if we have all these discussions before the vote and there is good listening (sorry have been involved with Kindergarteners and pre-schoolers lately and all I've been hearing is the "good listening" as a big skill this is critical for them to learn for school) going on, we'll be in good shape and can indeed galvanize around the budget. Not saying it won't happen, just haven't seen anything yet i.e., the budget draft to indicate we've got a shot at it.

[Chris_Wendt]

We have uneven NCLB score performance by elementary school and what was as of last year, an increasing # of special ed due process cases - something is not right and/or the district has continuing work to do.

This is one of my (least) favorite topics. For decades, meaning, for decades, right up to the present time, Wantagh has produced EXCELLENT results for our students. We have been not leaving children behind in Wantagh since 1957 or 1958. They all leave, with solid credentials, and with their abilities developed to the fullest extent. Wantagh's graduation rate and college attendance rate after graduation are...astonishing.

Excursions of assessment results from year-to-year which depart from the mythical Federal Standards are "not statistically significant", nothing to lose any sleep over, and not really worth a whole lot of debate, if any. You correctly used the term "uneven", which is an absolutely perfect reflection of the "uneven" rates at which each member of an entire student body matures between Kindergarten and their Senior Year in High School.

However, "uneven" is also a perfect descriptor for the (lack of) consistency in the development and propogation of both ""Federal"" ""Standards"", and, State curriculum and syllabus for the areas subject to NCLB Assessments.

"Uneven" NCLB Assessment results? Fuggetaboutit!

Chris Wendt

...may I have another Kool Aid, please? Lemon Lime, okay?

[lilly]

Feb 9, 2009 11:47:18 GMT -5 Chris_Wendt said:

Wantagh's graduation rate and college attendance rate after graduation are...astonishing.

I agree with you that they're historically strong and probably good++. Honestly, haven't seen anything from the district that puts it in perspective compared to other Nassau districts to characterize recent performance as astonishing.

Feb 9, 2009 11:47:18 GMT -5 Chris_Wendt said:

They all leave, with solid credentials, and with their abilities developed to the fullest extent.

I can assure that is not the case for the entire class of 2009.

Feb 9, 2009 11:47:18 GMT -5 Chris_Wendt said:

Excursions of assessment results from year-to-year which depart from the mythical Federal Standards are "not statistically significant", nothing to lose any sleep over, and not really worth a whole lot of debate, if any. You correctly used the term "uneven", which is an absolutely perfect reflection of the "uneven" rates at which each member of an entire student body matures between Kindergarten and their Senior Year in High School.

However, "uneven" is also a perfect descriptor for the (lack of) consistency in the development and propogation of both ""Federal"" ""Standards"", and, State curriculum and syllabus for the areas subject to NCLB Assessments.

"Uneven" NCLB Assessment results? Fuggetaboutit!

I would agree that an analysis that says we went up/down X percentage points for same grade vs. last year would be a fruitless comparison. The state changes the test each year as well as what they count as part of each test for the grading. NCLB has its own special set of dysfunction, merits, limitations and controversy. And philosophically, I don't believe in 'teaching to the test' or that its an indication of the kids, it's more of a test of a district's ability. Said hopefully better, the tenets of whatever content mastery according to the NCLB NY state tests should already be embedded in a curriculum with constant tweaking each year.

I would think that one year's comparison to other districts would be most compelling and even a muddied down Nassau or state # would be better than a year to year comparison of #'s.

Something like this done for the last few years would be in my opinion, a more worthwhile meaningful analysis:

www.quickfilepost.com/download.do?get=550bcbe1afe97c369b514c9e6fa5d919

www.quickfilepost.com/download.do?get=2bbe2177e38daa5248e0f5bec1ef2243

Feb 9, 2009 11:47:18 GMT -5 Chris_Wendt said:

...may I have another Kool Aid, please? Lemon Lime, okay?

I think we're offering strawberry and cherry kool-aid only this year due to contingency status. Lemon lime is new, therefore not required under the auspices of a contingency budget. In fact, due to contingency status, everyone only gets a 1/2 cup this year, not a full dixie cup. In order to offer lemon lime, we need SOS to put it to a vote of their committee as to whether they will fundraise for it, then wait & see the actual fundraising to occur (hello change jars at 7-11) as temper that with it's a horrendous economic environment for fundraising so we'll all be on pins & needles until fundraising success happens as well as the entire question of lemon lime is pending BOE approval of kool aid donations for flavors outside common varieties. In fact, SOS may have to debate then vote on full cups of strawberry & cherry like it was last year before even considering lemon lime. After all, we're on contingency in this town. ;D ;D ;D

Back at you for making me appear to be such a malcontent skooch today.

[Chris_Wendt]

I would think that one year's comparison to other districts would be most compelling and even a muddied down Nassau or state # would be better than a year to year comparison of #'s.

Something like this done for the last few years would be in my opinion, a more worthwhile meaningful analysis:

wantaghsd.proboards66.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=161&page=1

I think the analysis you provided is interesting, and I would encourage other readers to download that file and have a look.

However, I strongly disagree that, vis-a-vis analyzing those results as predictors of successful educational outcomes four years hence, that this is either meaningful or worthwhile. Interesting, yes...meaningful, no. Worthwhile? Tell me five years from now, but from here, I seriously doubt it.

The good news is that neither you nor I have to really worry very much about this. That's the "compelliing" part! Believe me, the Math and English Department Chairs are all over this, as are the Central Admin. Team and the BoE, as well as both secondary principals..."compelled" to react to those numbers! Knowing that allows me the convenience of being rather cavalier about the whole thing; believing that, if you would, should take away most of your appropriately parental concern.

Kool Aid is bad for one's teeth. Never mind.

Regards,

Chris Wendt